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Copyright (c) 2009 Ginny Maziarka. All rights reserved.

Tuesday, July 21, 2009

Plymouth youth planning "Bible Fight" - not what you think

In my opinion, this is inappropriate and disrespectful. In Plymouth City Park nonetheless...

Curtsy to: Irate Tireless Majority


Apparently some of the young people of Plymouth, WI have decided to have a Bible fight in Plymouth's City Park. Perhaps you believe that this event is going to be a doctrinal debate or a debate between young atheists and believers. Young people who have studied their own beliefs and are willing to stand up in a public forum and discuss them rationally with others. While I know a few young people in Plymouth who really do know what they believe, doctrinally, and would be willing to do such a thing, I am sad to say it is not so.

This is a group of teenagers who, I am assured, are mostly atheists or agnostics who will be throwing Bibles at one another in a game of pseudo dodge ball. I have no doubt that their parents will look lovingly on as their children purchase Bibles, thinking how wonderful it is that their children love God enough to want to purchase their own Bible.



Anonymous said...

People championing your cause have advocated burning books they don't like.

What's so bad about throwing a few around?

Anonymous said...

Lack of respect is what is bad.

Anonymous said...

Hilarious. Go burn some books and let other people throw them.

West Bend Citizen Advocate said...

Let's see. I don't believe I have ever suggested or encouraged book burning. In fact, I oppose it. Your continual alignment of WBCFSL/myself with those who DO is misleading, misinformed and disingenuous.

Me. Here. Right now. said...

You do advocate removing books from their appropriate place and would restrict those wanting access from having that access. That's worse than burning them. You ARE NOT the arbiter of what other people should have access to.

Anonymous said...

Hi Ginny,
I just saw a picture of you on CNN and was surprised to learn that you are anti-gay.

I mean, you *are* a guy (married to a guy), aren't you?

If not, I really think you should focus more on the firm stance the Bible takes against gluttony, than on its anti-gay passages.

Anonymous said...

It should be enough for people like to content yourselves with raising your children as you see fit, as much as I may disagree with the outcome. I can only assume you home school them already. If you don't like the library, don't go there, it's as simple as that. Leave intellectual enrichment to those of us who are smart enough to appreciate it.

Alison said...

Let them fly!

Anonymous said...

First off many of you commenting are just plain rude and frankly your name calling is rather child-like and full of hate.

It's funny how you tell Ginny she is full of hate...take a look in the mirror people.

Hahn - moving books from one section of the library is just as bad as burning. That's a pretty bold statement not to mention a wrong statement.

Moving books, but keeping them in the library...still accessible is hardly close to burning.

No one on this site advocates burning books.

Anonymous said...

And throwing around a book you don't believe in is any different than censorship and burning how?

Live with what you preach.

Also, as a parent of a teen child, I would know exactly what she was buying it for if she was participating because I PARENT rather than expecting the law to parent for me.

Anonymous said...

Would you advocate throwing and trashing the American Flag too? Moving books 100 ft does not constitute censorship.

We are told numerous times via the law what our kids can or can not do. So are you in a huff about those as well?

Glad you agree that parents should decide, because all we want is a chance for the parents, taxpayers and citizens of our community to decide. Nice to know we have you backing regarding that.

Jody from SW Wisconsin said...

It will never cease to amaze me how vocal uninformed people can be. Go back to the beginning of all of this, read what the requests of the Maziarka's were and look at what the law says. I cannot believe there are people who claim they love their children and then fight against someone who tries to protect these same children from sexually explicit material. Get a grip on reality people! It isn't censorship that is being promoted here, it is PROTECTION for YOUR children. What the heck!

Anonymous said...

My wife is a young adult librarian, and I constantly worry about LUNATICS like yourself, who not only think that the PUBLIC library is their own personal book collection and raise hell when they don't get their way! If you're so concerned to the point that you whip your small town and the surrounding areas into a frenzy, why don't you -- get this -- MONITOR THE BOOKS YOUR KIDS CHECK OUT!!! I know, novel concept, right?

Anonymous said...

Could you get me in touch with the people holding the book fight? I'd like to know the rules.

Anonymous said...

People like you are a great impetus for people grow to hate organized religion and become atheists and agnostics. I don't know what you're worshiping, but it's not holy-- God would never ask you to use God to justify your bigotry and hatred. You are NOT a Christian. You're closed-minded, angry, and owned by your own fear.

Anonymous said...

"Your continual alignment of WBCFSL/myself with those who DO is misleading, misinformed and disingenuous."

I didn't say you had anything to do with book burning. I said, "People championing your cause have advocated burning books they don't like."

Christian Civil Liberties Union ring a bell?

Anonymous said...

"Could you get me in touch with the people holding the book fight? I'd like to know the rules."

He is it:

Anonymous said...

Ginny- please ignore the ignorance that is spewing hate and name calling.

Many many people in OUR COMMUNITY support you. We all want parents to have a choice in what their children are reading. We will continue to ask the library give the power back to the community and let us decide what is good for us.

Don't let the liberal wacko-s get you down. We know moving books from one shelf to another is NOT censorship. We know that asking parents to reconset would solve this issue. I don't understand why the library is hell bent on not letting the community decide what our standards are. It's the libraries own policy to "uphold community standards".

The fact is and you will see this time again, when the left has no argument left they go to name calling. This is when you know you are making progress. Stay the course hold true to your protection of parents rights.

Anonymous said...

"The fact is and you will see this time again, when the left has no argument left they go to name calling."

Er...kind of like Ginny saying "Librarian Borg"?

Anonymous said...

Let's compare:

Ginny said borg.

Other said dumb, dumb ass, cow, old crow, called her a guy, lunatic....I could go on.


Anonymous said...

I think it's funny how few people are willing to put their names on the things they say here. How am I supposed to take you seriously if you aren't brave enough to attach your names to what you're saying? I really respect all of you who do, whether I agree with what you're saying or not.

Anonymous said...

All other commentary aside, wouldn't a Bible fight kind of hurt? I'm just imagining the injuries and it's not pretty.

Anonymous said...

i was the one who created this event. what is the big deal i believe the bible is a joke and so do some of my friends. what we are doing is treating this such book as what it really is, which happens to be a joke. a book like the bible only has significance over someone if you let it. im not letting the bible do this to me. why do people like yourselves need to get your nickers in a twist over something that does not involve you. if you don't like it, don't come. let us make the point we wanna make. Christianity suppresses people like myself every single day, its time to bring the suppression back. Myself being a homosexual is already at a disadvantage in life due to a religion which no one can ever be certain of its existence. why should my life be different because a religion says my lifestyles is wrong. its time to feel the suppression i have felt. this is a peaceful event besides if you are involved which in that case you are going to be having fun. take a chill pill and don't disregard change. with happens to be very weak-minded. do you want to be weak-minded? i dont and i wont

Anonymous said...

I cannot believe what I am reading here. All of these comments are WAY more immature than a Bible "fight."

You people really should find something better to do with your time than criticize a bunch of teenagers who are just trying to have fun.

This really should not be taken so seriously.

Anonymous said...

Isn't the bible fight on August 17th? Lets not get ahead of ourselves, "adults"

Online bible fights are so overrated.

Perhaps if you weren't all so caught up in your own religious ego's you wouldn't care so much about something so silly. If the concept of your lord and savior is so incredibly righteous perhaps he will take care of this "evil deed" himself. OR MAYBE HE DOESN'T CARE, LET ALONE EXIST. YOU CARE BECAUSE YOU'RE AN IGNORANT HUMAN EXISTING IN A SMALL BORING TOWN WITH NOTHING BETTER TO DO. YOU CONTRADICT YOUR OWN RELIGION. SHUT THE FUCK UP.

You're all a bunch of smelly poopooheads.

Anonymous said...

I think we can all agree that in this Bible Fight's sincerest form it is merely an act of freedom of speech. It is a protest and these kids have the right to peaceful protest. They are not throwing Bibles at passersby, only at other participants, and are in no way abridging the rights of others. This is peaceful. If one believes it is inappropriate then that is merely a reflection of their beliefs and opinions. Also, an act like this does no signify close-mindedness, kmherson. Everyone is intitled to their own beliefs, there is no right and wrong here.

Anonymous said...

Why should the youth of this country submit to "respecting" groups that they don't agree with? The christian church has used its power to make the U.S. a 'christian nation,' regardless of what the U.S. was founded on in the Constitution . Just look in many government buildings. They are full of christian deities and bible excerpts (another different debate). Anyways, we are choosing not to believe in what christians believe in. I think christians (primarily the conservative ones)need to be less sensitive and "respect" what WE believe in.

p.s. I wouldn't be offended if you had a 'Darwin's - On the Origin of Species' fight.

Call Me Mom said...

In my opinion, to which I am also entitled, it is poor parenting to allow one's children to engage in such disrespectful displays, much less supporting them under the umbrella of free speech. It has been my hope that the parents of Plymouth would get involved and make this a non-event.

As for God punishing such a display, there are several businesses who are planning to move to this area with the re-opening (at taxpayer expense) of the rail line between Plymouth and Sheboygan. I wonder, in the light of our governor's latest efforts at driving business away from WI, if hearing about such an event might not be the straw that causes those businesses to reconsider that decision.

I don't think there are any commentors here who would deny that this will be perceived as disrespectful of the community, the country, and our history as a nation.

There are actually some references on the event page that some of these young people have purchased and burned Bibles in front of classmates that they knew would find it offensive. So, all those who protest book burning, you may want to re-examine your position with regard to this particular group if you don't want to appear inconsistent.

This is not a protest against religion, it is a protest against Christianity. Islam is more censorious of homosexuality than is Christianity, but there are no plans to chuck around the Quran in the park, so let's be clear on what this "protest" is about.

One of the commenters says he/she should not be required to respect the beliefs of others, and then demands that those same others should respect his/her beliefs. Does anyone else see a problem with that?

The post on my blog, which is where Ginny saw this originally, was made in the hopes that the parents of the Plymouth community would become informed and take this opportunity to have a good talk with their children about respect for others and one's community. That they would forbid their children from participating out of that sense of respect. I asked for input on how best to make the parents aware of the issue, besides alerting the (VERY) local paper.

I would ask that those adults who are taking an active role in this discussion take a step back and allow the parents and other adults of this community to address the issue before making this into a more publicly known issue that could have economic or other repercussions for the Plymouth community.
Thank you.

Anonymous said...

My original comment was directed to the writer of this blog, not those who participate in the bible fight. Sorry for any misunderstanding!

Anonymous said...

Call Me Mom, I understand your position/concern but first I think we need to understand who these participants are. They are, in fact, teenagers. Late teens/early twenties. I seriously doubt a number of teenagers engaging in a harmless demonstration will kick up a storm so strong that it will repel potential businesses from the area (unless of course you intend on conducting the storm).

As such, these are, I say again, teens who are entering, or perhaps already are, independent from their parents. The arm of parenting has a limit.

Also, on the webpage there have been talks about whether this is a protest against the idea of religion or Christianity specifically. Once again, we need to realize that these teenagers and understandably so they're resources are probably limited. I'm 19 and I do not know where to purchase a copy of the Quran or the Torah. Bibles, on the other hand, are available at the nearest dollar tree.

Once again this is protest that is not forcing anybody who disagrees to participate. I believe the decision of not resorting to obstructionism or violence is an effort in respect to others. If you do disagree with cause, which by all means is ok with me and should be with the participants, it would be better to simply turn away and pay no attention to it.

Anonymous said...

Call Me Mom:

As I believe your sixth paragraph was directed at one of my posts, I am not demanding the respect of christians. I am simply stating that before you (christian poplulation) ask us to respect your beliefs (as this article says), you should should respect our beliefs.

Call Me Mom said...

Yes, they are teenagers. Teenagers being openly and obnoxiously disrespectful of their community and the faith of many in their community. To let this go teaches them what? That they are the only ones allowed to express an opinion? That being disrespectful to those who disagree is acceptable if you cloak it in freedom of speech? There is a level of personal responsibility that goes along with those freedoms. Respect for ones neighbors is part of that personal responsibility.
As for finding Qurans or Confucian dialects or the written scriptures of other religions, Amazon.com would probably give them a good price for a bulk order. There is time for that if they wished. I wouldn't advise it because I believe that would have far more immediate negative consequences from the followers of certain religions than my response to their flagrant disrespect for my faith and community.

Anon#2:Respect is reciprocal. To organize and promote such an event is not respectful to me or any other Christians who hear of it. You are saying we as Christians need to be respectful of those who have posted a public notice of an event designed to be flagrantly offensive to us. Really? How much respect have we been shown here?
You ask for our respect AFTER you have thrown down the gauntlet and then criticize us for being intolerant? I think you need to re-examine your logic.
You seem to be saying that everyone must be tolerant of your intolerance for others. I have been logically and respectfully requesting that this event be cancelled out of respect to the faith of others and the community and what reactions have I gotten?

I would go on, but I would prefer to address this issue at my own blog, which is linked to my name as I do not have all day to be blogging. Please acquaint yourselves with the ground rules before posting there if you choose to continue the conversation there and kindly choose a name to include at the bottom of your posts.

Anonymous said...

Half of the point about buying Bibles instead of the Quran was that the Bible was located at the local dollar-tree store. LOCAL. DOLLAR. Those are the key words. Amazon.com might give them a good deal, but it probably isn't as good as that. Not that they shouldn't try to be more politically correct. And really, how much backlash do you expect from followers of other religions, such as Islam, in small town Plymouth, WI? Where is the nearest Mosque? Would news of this silly event reach their ears?

Also, Confucianism is not a religion. It is a way of life. As simple as that.