Citizens DO have a voice in their community, contrary to what a local West Bend attorney might think.
Curtsy to Dan Kleinman, SafeLibraries:
Someone in Holyoke, MA, is getting away with murder. Getting away with murder is an idiom for not being punished for what would bring punishment to others. In the Holyoke Public Library, someone is getting away with child pornography, and in my opinion, it is library director Maria Pagan. Might it also be the library board itself for covering up a cover up?
Residents again feel safe to bring their kids to the Maple Street library, but aren't sure the director, the one accused of a cover up, should go unpunished."The first thing she should've done is bring it to somebody's attention and that should've been the police," says Brenda Cruz.However, the library, admits no wrong.
....
But your opinion is more important. See if you agree that Maria Pagan and perhaps the library board itself is getting away with murder. Watch the CBS 3 Springfield (WSHM) video newscast here:
"Holyoke Library Bolsters Security Post Porn Incident,"by Matthew Campbell, CBS 3 Springfield, 21 July 2009.
By the way, Holyoke citizens, congratulations on getting Internet filters. But according to the librarian who outed the library director, the library director claimed opposition to the USA PATRIOT Act as why she failed to act.
Ditto to Holyoke citizens. Way to go!
50 comments:
Its MURDER! Its MURDER
Come on! Don't stop There! Post her home address. Post pictures of her and her family! Post her phone number!
Let's go harass her outside of the law because it'll make us feel warm and fuzzy inside like the self-indulgent conservative crackpots we are!
Wow, I just read about you on CNN, and couldn't believe you were a real person. Seriously, in this day and age, to still have someone dictating how the children of others should be raised; it's unbelievable. You are a museum piece.
No library books should be censored. Aren't conservatives all about how the MAN intrudes on their lives? Why are you seeking more intrusion? The people in charge of deciding what your children should read should be...well, you. Why change library rules to reflect YOUR tastes? There are parents out there who have no problem with placing such books next to each other.
Jeez, what a waste of a life. With all the suffering and strife out there, can't you direct your energies towards helping hungry children? Contributing to cancer research? Conservation?
Thank goodness you and your ilk are a dying breed.
The problem with your assertion gothamnights, is that the public is very quick to ease into the groove of claiming someone is trying to parent someone elses child "for them"
The reality of the matter is that realistically any parent that would allow their children to access this type of material is many times deemed unfit for parenting.
Showing your children pornography can get them taken away from you.
Reading your children a story about graphic sexual arrousal can get them taken away from you, and probably cost you a pricey bill for counseling fees.
Why is it that parents should be allowed to let their children pick out a book that does many of these same things and read it themselves, but if any of these children ran to a school counselor and reported that instead their PARENT had READ THEM the EXACT SAME MATERIAL, the school counselor would be required by law to report it to child services.
Sure looks like we're dancing around the law here folks... Why isnt anyone else getting this?
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"The reality of the matter is that realistically any parent that would allow their children to access this type of material is many times deemed unfit for parenting.
Showing your children pornography can get them taken away from you."
Excuse me, but the books in question are NOT "pornography" and I sincerely resent the implication that I am an UNFIT parent because I would have no problem with a young adult reading these YOUNG ADULT novels. Don't let your kids read these books if you find them inappropriate, but HOW DARE YOU question my parenting ability or what I will allow my own children to read.
I wish that those of you who are social conservatives had less influence over policy in this country. We'd be a better informed nation with children that grew up being able to critically judge information for themselves.
But I'm just typing because I can. You bring my country down, and nothing I say can stop you.
If you try to shield your children, or anyone's chidren for that matter, from that which you deem "evil" or "wrong" you are only hurting them. Seek to understand these things and you will gain incredible power. Power that you can properly hand to your children that will help enlighten the world. Your current ignorance is merely shadowing it.
Maybe we should have all books about food and eating removed as well -- they might encourage children to over-eat and grow up to become obese, strident library censors.
As much as I hate this, I'm posting anonymously to avoid being harassed by the sort of ilk that would dictate that showing positive and life affirming actions is evil and vile.
As someone that has lost friends and family to murder, how dare you use it as a sensationalized sound bite. Or child porn for that matter. How dare you belittle such horrible things because you think you know better than other parents as to what their children should read. How dare you belittle people for having their rights and beliefs.
And the person that said if you're pulling violence and pornography then you should start with the Bible is right. Where's the balance in allowing that and not other forms?
Man you are fat.
I am so sorry Ginny you are being called names for standing up for what you believe in. Which in all reality, is your right. IF you believe a book should be reviewed, you have the right to ask. As others have the right to debate the issue.
Debate, the key word.
You also have the right to remove inappropriate comments, language from your blog. You are the blog owner and I would not cry "censorship" should you remove content that has nothing to do with the issue.
It's uncalled for!!
Supporting you through it all.
Someone on here says that calling Ginny names (fatass, say) is childish and ignorant.
That's wrong for two reasons. First because there's a Biblical prohibition on gluttony that Miss Ginny is plainly flouting. In other words, she's got a hypocrisy problem, quite literally up the ass.
Second because Ginny's ideas on gay people are far more childish and ignorant than any slur against her on here (fatass, say) could be. Forcing us to summon up the by-now-obvious arguments against her positions, broadly accepted by most thinking people, is infuriating. And it should be unnecessary.
She pleads for balance. But there are only two positions here: one based in gigantically dumb religious dogma, and the other rooted in understanding, information, and human experience. Comparing those two, as if reasoned reasoned debate should take place between, is insulting to reason.
What about our rights, Judi? What about our rights to raise our children with all the information that we want made available to them? What about our right to have books in the library that we want to check out? What about our right to raise our children according to our moral guidelines rather than yours or Ginny's? What about those rights?
I hope the old testament is next on your list. I mean, how can you explain incest to your child (Lot)? What about infidelity (David and Bathsheba)? I know Leviticus is important to follow, with the gays and all, so I am sure you don't go near the kitchen to cook when you have your period, and sacrifice your lamb every Sunday, right?
Ginny, what does this story have do to with citizens having a voice in their community? Did you even read the news report? It was a librarian who stepped forward, and a TV news station that did an investigation.
I guess I shouldn't be surprised at how you try to twist and turn every library "scandal" into something that furthers your agenda. Like Dan, Like Ginny.
NO ARE YOU CRAZY GINNY MAZIARKA
I HAVE READ THE BOOK "PERKS OF BEING A WALLFLOWER" AND ITS A REALLY GOOD BOOK AND I AM TEEN AND REALLY PEOPLE IN REALLY LIFE HAVE BEEN THRUGHT THE SAME THINGS IN THE BOOK ITS LIKE SOMEONE TELLING US THE STORY AND IF IT IS SOMTHING TO DO WITH RELIGION THEN NOT EVERYONE HAS THE SAME RELIGION
AND IF U DONT WANT YOUR KID TO READ THESE BOOKS THEN NOT TELL THEM TO SOME IF YOUR TAKING OUR BOOKS YOU ARE STARTING WAR WITH ALOT OF PEOPLE AND YOU CANT TAKE OUR BOOKS
This is about a library director covering up CHILD PORN.
Why is it that the blog comments have gotten to be all about Ginny?
It's true, most public libraries feel that they are above the law. Protecting child predator's and leaving it up to the officials to find them, taking no steps to help officials?
As for Ginny's reconsideration request, a request I have supported from the beginning, not all books should be shelved or available to children, teens, youth, etc. Who decides if they are appropriate for the library shelf? Should all books be shelved?
("The librarian's responsibility ... is to separate out the gold from the garbage, not to preserve everything") Court Case US vs. ALA (American Library Association)
Wondering if this is just jealousy?
I'd like to request a computer burning at our library.
"Should all books be shelved?"
If there were room to shelve every book, then yes, why not?
We live in a free country. The freedoms that allow the Koran and the Bible to both be shelved in a library ALSO allow books like "Deal With It!" to be on library shelves. You can't pick and choose.
Also, LOL @ burning the Internet.
It certainly is silly or "LOL @ burning the internet." But, I said computers.
I was serious, too.
Thanks for commenting Paige.
If you are so concerned about protecting people then maybe you should remember that you live in the USA. We have freedoms to decide for ourselves what we want to read and what we allow our own children to read. We don't don't need your bigoted protection. In fact, we need protection from you. I'll decide what books I want to read and check them out from the library with my own decision, not yours. Take this negative energy and transform it into something truely helpful if you are really so concerned. Help the poor or sick.
Paige. You conviniently read the wrong paragraph. Here, let me help you.
"Reading your children a story about graphic sexual arrousal can get them taken away from you, and probably cost you a pricey bill for counseling fees."
No one with common sense that has read some of the books mentioned here can say that they are age appropriate for children.
But if thats your mindset. Might as well get rid of the rating system on movies and games, since parents should be able to properly govern their children and decide what movies they can see regardless of what a rating is, so its a waste of time to even rate them.
Lets get rid of drinking ages and drivers licenses. Parents can decide when their kids are old enough to down a shot. And really, if your child seems to have an affinity for parallell parking at the age of 11, you dont want to stifle him by telling him he has to wait for something silly like a lamenated peice of paper with his picture on it to be able to legally drive, right?
LAWS exist for a REASON, and MANIPULATING COMMON SENSE and the ORIGINAL INTENT of these LAWS does a great injustice for everyone involved.
This is seriously pathetic.
This is overtly in response to the CNN article. I'm not pretending otherwise.
One of the most ironic parts for me was this:
[Ginny Maziarka] and her husband also asked the library to obtain books about homosexuality that affirmed heterosexuality, such as titles written by "ex-gays," Maziarka said.
"All the books in the young-adult zone that deal with homosexuality are gay-affirming. That's not balance," she said.
So would you say that we should throw in some pro-Nazi writing in with all the stuff that affirms religious and ethnic diversity? Because, hey, the library wouldn’t be balanced otherwise, right?
I am sick and tired of tunnel vision, of people thinking that if their teenagers never read about anything they consider offensive, it’ll all go away nicely. Because, you know, violence and discrimination against sexual orientation are so not problems in the world, are they? Your teenagers are never ever going to grow up and encounter them because you managed to restrict them from ever reading about such things? Wrong, wrong and wrong. Teach your teenagers to read critically and to think for themselves about these issues. Don’t try and burn books at the stake or push everything under the bed. Because ultimately, in doing that, you’re not teaching your teenagers how to live in the real world. It’s a far more complicated place than that.
A young adult novel is aimed at a teenage audience (not children, but young adults), and contains themes relevant to being a young adult in today’s world. Young adult novels are rarely, if ever, in favour of things like violence or promiscuity. They may, however, examine the consequences.
And if they are in favour of homosexuality, then that is because today’s homosexual teenager needs all the help they can get. Especially if the society they live in is full of people who refuse to accept them and give them a voice in fiction.
Jesus himself spent his time among society’s outcasts, among lepers and prostitutes and many others. To encourage discrimination when his fundamental message was to accept and love all regardless of who they are is not only undermining freedom of speech, but also Christianity itself.
Why not just relax about this? I realize that the books are offensive to you, but have you read any of them? Even if they have some sort of content that seems objectionable, if you haven't read the material to make a sound judgement on what you are objecting to, you don't deserve to share and try to push your beliefs on us. Maybe the material is in the book to teach a lesson. Have you seen a movie like Requiem for a Dream? That contains very extreme and pornographic content in the minds of some people, but teaches a valuable life lesson. It should be shown to every teen. Anyway books are the least of parent's concerns, and they should be monitored by the parents. Because we have the first amendment, they have a right to be in the library, just as you would if you wrote a book. If you feel they are objectionable, you could voice your opinion to those that will listen, instead of trying to ban books that others might want to read. Please stop pushing your beliefs on others. The greatest Christians I have met have led people to god without pushing it on them, by just living decent lives quietly and not trying prove to god how worthy they are.
So like Ginny's opposition is doing.
Chivid...how about a response with some substance, instead of a rant.
You are right...murder is murder.
Goth- Some call it a waster and others calling it protecting children. We are in a constant state of protecting children and moving books from one shelf to another is hardly censoring.
Talk blowing things our of proportion.
I am a feeling you are not from West Bend. Since you are full of questions, I have one for you. Don't you better things in your own community to "direct your energies" toward? Just askin'
Alison, you must mean the "breed" that stands up for children and the rights of parents and community.
Paige- That is what we want to do...give the parents the right to choose, if they [the parent] is at the library or not. Having parents reconsent would give them that right.
See if the parents are not allowed to reconsent then the library is choosing for the parent.
Shana- Social Converatives who believe in LIFE, family values, God, our right to bear arms are bringing the country down? HA! That's funny.
How about the left who right now want to take away our choice on health care for us and our families. The liberals who constantly take our hard earned money from us. The liberals who would choose to fund our soliders who are fighting for our freedoms. The liberals who think it's better to live off the government then go out and make a living for yourself. That's who is bringing this country down.
I'll pass on the kool-aid.
"If you try to shield your children, or anyone's chidren for that matter, from that which you deem "evil" or "wrong" you are only hurting them. "
If YOU want your kids to read these books you can, but give the right back to the parents. Let them reconsent.
By your statement they should be able then to read Hustler and Penthouse. Sort of a blanket statement don't ya think.
"Maybe we should have all books about food and eating removed as well -- they might encourage children to over-eat and grow up to become obese, strident library censors."
I think Obama is well on his way to doing just that. Will you liberals stand up to him on that. Or when he bans fast food, or when fat people get charged more in their insurance...will you stand for that?
"What about our rights, Judi? What about our rights to raise our children with all the information that we want made available to them?" -Goth
You will have your rights. The books will still be in the library. Go and check them out. Better yet let parents reconsent so your child can pick out all the obscene books they want.
Give this debate over to the community and let them decide. I wonder why the library and their "ilk" don't want that?
Paige- Get informed. The books in question will STILL BE ON THE SHELVES IN THE LIBRARY. You want 'em go check 'em out.
Not sure how many times this has to be repeated.
Not sure how many times this has to be repeated.
"A young adult novel is aimed at a teenage audience (not children, but young adults),"
In West Bend our YA Zone is directed for children (minor children) 11-17. These are not just "young adults". Also, many children younger with good reading skills read up so potentially even younger children have access to obscene materials.
Young adult...that's like Disney or Six Flags charging full price for a 12 year old. Bet you like that don't you.
Man, this is depressing. Look at all of us spending time commenting on Ginny's blog and debating her proposals.
Seriously - the woman is borderline retarded. We all knoow it, and here we all are dignifying her ideas with consideration.
Damn it.
Yes, burning books, and punishing creativity is God's work. Individuality should be punished.
We live in a different era. Teenagers deal with different issues today, and the book you are calling to get burned and shelved is, in fact, a book that deals with the issues that teenagers deal with today. You can close your eyes, and put your fingers in your ears all you want, if you must, but don't push your belief on everyone else just because "God" hates it. The way I see it, you are doing more of the devil's work. Punishing our human nature of being curious, and restricting us to what a select mere humans think is right.
Yes, I know, some of you are concerned about the children, and thats your main point, but if you were the concerned parents you really were, you would push a law that made it so that certain books would need parental permission before being checked out, not just trying to get them banned altogether. What if I wanted my children to read "wallflower", to get a better grasp as to what its like being a teenager in today's society. Oops, I can't do that now seeing as a select group of angry parents want to trample all over my freedoms just because they don't want to go to the library with their own children.
Actually, according to the West Bend Library Board the decision has already been made. These books will not be able to be challenged again. It is not an ALA agenda, it is not a librarian's agenda, it does not have anything to do with NOT protecting kids, it simply has to do with the freedom to read.
I had one more thing to add about my previous statement about the freedom to read. These books are not intended to corrupt kids, they are intended to help and educate teens through the very difficult period of growing up. Teens have voices and rights too. They are also future taxpayers and might someday appreciate the fact that the books were kept in the young adult section. I'm not trying to insult anyone's viewpoints on this topic, but I just wanted to say this. Thank you.
"See if the parents are not allowed to reconsent then the library is choosing for the parent."
WHAT?!
No, they are not! They are making the information available. They aren't GIVING the books to the children. They aren't putting a gun to the parents' head and saying "YOUR CHILD MUST READ THIS." They provide ACCESS to the materials which the parent can then DECIDE if they want their child to read.
Also, you can hardly compare a BOOK ON PUBERTY to the LAWS THAT GOVERN DRIVERS' LICENSES. You, Anonymous, are pathetic.
Okay, help me get informed. What does "let the parents reconsent" even mean? Again, AS A LIBRARIAN, I have to ask--who decides whether a book is obscene? How about the parents give their consent when the child is asking to check it out?
When someone signs up for a library card for their child no where does it state that said child will have access to obscene materials. Having the parents reconsent means they will be fully aware of what their child could possible pick up and read.
If the parent agrees that their child can have read obscene materials a sticker would be applied to the card (donations would be made to cover the cost of the stickers). If there is no sticker then the child, by the parents request is not allowed to view or check out obscene materials.
The term obscene would, like the library states in their policy, be defined by the community.
"When someone signs up for a library card for their child no where does it state that said child will have access to obscene materials"
What? Why on earth would you use the term "obsecne?" This is just ridiculous.
Also, how is that different than being a responsible parent and keeping on top of what your children are checking out/reading?
Anonymous said...
Goth- Talk blowing things our of proportion. I am a feeling you are not from West Bend. Since you are full of questions, I have one for you. Don't you better things in your own community to "direct your energies" toward? Just askin'
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You are right, I am NOT from West Bend. I'm from NYC, land of freedom, where the libraries stack all the books they can get their hands on, and let US decide what we'll read or let our children read. I'm from NYC, a land that doesn't try to infantilize all aspects of our existence to make them easy for children's consumption, b/c we understand that protecting children from obscenity is a parent's right and duty, not everyone else's.
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July 23, 2009 5:26 AM
Anonymous said...
Shana- Social Converatives who believe in LIFE, family values, God, our right to bear arms are bringing the country down? HA! That's funny.
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We can get into a whole separate debate on who's bringing the country down, and who's violating the very religion they claim to follow, with such un-Christian ideals as prejudice, meanness and lack of charity. We can discuss that, but that isn't what this debate is about.
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July 23, 2009 5:34 AM
Anonymous said...
"What about our rights, Judi? What about our rights to raise our children with all the information that we want made available to them?" -Goth
Give this debate over to the community and let them decide. I wonder why the library and their "ilk" don't want that?
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It's not something that a mob of religious conservatives should decide. All the books should be made equally available, then the child's parents should decide what their child should read. We're not taking your rights away; and we're not suggesting that you give these books to your kids. We're demanding that you don't take away OUR kids' rights to read them, nor make them less available to them.
GOTH:
NYC, eh?
"I'm from NYC, land of freedom, where the libraries stack all the books they can get their hands on, and let US decide what we'll read or let our children read. I'm from NYC, a land that doesn't try to infantilize all aspects of our existence to make them easy for children's consumption, b/c we understand that protecting children from obscenity is a parent's right and duty, not everyone else's."
Perhaps you should read this:
http://www.plan2succeed.org/nypost-citys_ed_boobs13oct03by_carl_campanile.htm
TL, DR
West Bend Advocate:
I didn't say NYC was perfect, but the fact that item made news tells you how rare it is that books are pulled. Also, this was a case of the books being pulled from schools, not public libraries. That being said, there was a mother in Kansas who tried to have the Harry Potter books banned from her local schools, thereby preventing other people's kids from reading them, and that outraged me more than anything in the article you submitted.
Anonymous said...
LAWS exist for a REASON, and MANIPULATING COMMON SENSE and the ORIGINAL INTENT of these LAWS does a great injustice for everyone involved.
This is seriously pathetic.
July 22, 2009 9:00 PM
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Anonymous said...
How about the left who right now want to take away our choice on health care for us and our families. The liberals who constantly take our hard earned money from us. The liberals who would choose to fund our soliders who are fighting for our freedoms. The liberals who think it's better to live off the government then go out and make a living for yourself. That's who is bringing this country down.
I'll pass on the kool-aid.
July 23, 2009 5:29 AM
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I repeat; "The liberals who would choose to fund our soliders who are fighting for our freedoms." [sic!].
Yeah. Damn those LIEberals who will FUND our "SOLIDERS" as they fight for our FREDOOMS (All of them! All freedoms! That's right! How many freedoms have you fought for lately?!). I agree that we should stop FUNDING our SOLDIERS. Damn those vile scoundrels!
Also, WRITING in CAPS makes me SMARTER when I CLAIM that DRIVING A car without license IS just as dangerous as READING a BOOK!
Anyway, I hope this was just some nice trolling, because if not I have to feel sorry for you.
OK, although Ginny and I do not see eye to eye on many things personal attacks against her for her weight or whatever are totally uncalled for. You can state your opinion but when you bring in the name calling and personal judgements against her well... It does nothing to bolster your own stance.
Ginny, though we disagree on the issue, I will apologize for those that have said the above things in their personal attacks against you.
One can make all the crass remarks they want about comments like underage driving being equated to reading a book as asinine, but it really makes a valid insight.
We are in this position because somewhere, sometime, someone said "screw common decency, I think my child should be able to read about blowjobs even though shes only 10. I'm her parent, and no one knows how to parent better than I do!"
I still dont see how anyone can say that this makes common sense!
Having a child does not neccessarily give anyone the qualifications for making good decisions.
There are plenty of parents that have completely destroyed their childrens lives, and yet there are people here trying to stick to an argument that a parent always knows what is best for their child.
The fact is that the assertion is patently false.
As a parent I hope that I do a good job raising my children. I will instruct them in how to make good decisions in the face of temptation. How to follow the laws placed before them and to be of excellent character.
Somehow I dont see how reading about the drug fueled problems of a tweenager blogging about buttsex really supports that idealology
I'm not here to raise your children, or make choices for you. But really, what kind of parent are you seriously if you want your child to fill their brain with this type of filth?
"I'm not here to raise your children, or make choices for you."
Then stop telling me what I should allow my children to read. Worry about yourself and your own family.
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